King Diamond
Live from Dallas

With Dr. Phil

To write much about King Diamond would almost be blasphemy, so to say. When I called him up in Texas for the interview for the new album "House Of God", I received a highly interesting view of the life-philosophy of the Dane, which should interest everybody, even those, who normally are not interested in Heavy Metal.
I had already known that King is quite talkative, but reality beat this expectation by far, as you can see for yourself :)

When I had listened to "House Of God" for the first time, I was reminded of your early works...

Yes, I can completely understand that, because it's more aggressive this time, but still has all the good melodies in it, too. And at the same time everybody keeps telling me that the music is easier to understand, but actually it is harder to play. (laughs)
It is far more complex this time. I know several of my songs, where Andy had to work very hard to play them on the guitar. So while it is more complex, the complexity still doesn't disturb the flow of the songs.
I also think that my vocals are a bit more in the older style, with the choirs and that, compared to the last couple of albums. So I am, too, reminded of the earlier stuff, but there also are newer things to it, because I think that it is very important to implement fresh elements, too, so you don't start to repeat yourself.

Yes, it has the sound of the early times, but still it doesn't sound old-fashioned, but still up-to-date.

Exactly. I totally agree with that.

Was there any particular reason, why you have taken on this sound again?

That was as strange as always. First of all, with all the record-labels we have been involved with since the beginning, we always have had complete artistic freedom to do what we want, what we think is best. We never had a guy from the company come to the studio, check our music and say "No, we don't like those five songs, write other ones." This is, why we can write straight from the heart, without having to think about what others might think about it. Andy and I also don't talk to each other about what we should do for the next album, if it should be faster or more aggressive or whatever. Andy writes his music in Sweden and I write my music here in Dallas. Then we send our stuff to the other and say what we think about it. And only then we talk about which songs we like best. So there was no particular reason for the slight change in sound, but it comes straight from the heart. That is also the reason, why all our albums are different from each other, because we never plan anything musically. Of course we could just sit down and say "Let's do another 'Abigail'-album." We could do that easily in two weeks, that would be the easiest thing to do, because we exactly know how to do it. But that would mean just going back and repeating ourselves. There would be no progress, there would be no challenge and that's what I call selling out. It would show that we had run out of inspiration. And I don't like that, because it's not good for anybody. Not for us as musicians, because we would not be creative anymore, not for the listener, because he would get something he has had before. I mean, every KING DIAMOND-album you put on sounds different, they all have a different feeling and a different atmosphere and that is good, because it still is our KING DIAMOND-style, that truly does exist, but uses the room within the style. That's just the way we do it and that is most probably, why it sounds that way. But to really explain, why it sounds more aggressive again or so, I don't know, maybe we're more pissed off right now or something, I really don't know. (laughs) But we actually feel good, it was pretty much like with the last MERCYFUL FATE-album, it also was more aggressive and sounded a bit more like the early days, but again I couldn't tell you why. It sounds fresh and new, but has the old feeling to it. "House Of God" has the feeling of "Abigail", "Conspiracy" or "The Eye", but at the same time we have stuff that we never have had before, too.

Over the years you've also had a continuous change of co-musicians. How important are those musicians for KING DIAMOND as a band?

Of course they are important, because you have to have good players, but they are not important in the direction of the band. It's always the song-writers that create the music, that make the direction of the band. I've always had the opinion that there are so many great musicians out there in this world that you can always find good players. Of course you still have to look out for them, you have to look for good musicians that are able to play your music the way you want it to be played. The music is the way it is, if it is played by this person or that person, but for KING DIAMOND it's Andy and me writing the songs and for MERCYFUL FATE it's me and Hank. Sometimes there had been other people involved, too, but never very much. I think that this is, because it is very hard to write for this band in a natural way. For example for the "Voodoo"-album Chris Estes had five songs that he presented to us, but none of them really worked for me. They just sounded unnatural. He tried to write complicated stuff, but it didn't sound natural. I then took arrangements of three of his compositions, some riffs that I could hear would fit into a song, and put them together, but they still were not enough, so I had to write some stuff myself to make the song sound alright. So it is not easy for somebody else to write in this style. For MERCYFUL FATE, the music is very natural for Hank and me, just like the KING DIAMOND-style is for Andy and me. We've also been working together for so long that it is hard for others to come in and really contribute in a way that it works out. When I write a piece of music, sometimes it is complex and sometimes it is not, but it has the same feeling to me.

"House Of God" is not an, sorry for this plain expression, 'ordinary' story, but it's going deeper on a quite philosophical level, coming to the questions of what life is, why we live and what we in fact are in the whole universe.

Yes, it's about that and about gods, where they come from and, of course, if there are any gods at all out there. One of the main questions, one of the main things that I am saying is that it is fine to believe in gods, when you do it in a relaxed way. To me it is insane to believe in gods and then use them as an excuse to kill other people, because there is nobody on this earth, who can prove to everybody else on this earth that they have the right god. That's why we have different gods. I mean, if I could prove to you that there is only one specific god, then I could prove that to everybody on this earth and everybody would believe in that god, that's just logical. But since we cannot to that, the Christians cannot prove to the Muslims that theirs is the right god and vice versa, of course. That is a fact and that's what I think is so crazy, because 90% of all wars that are going on today are based on religious differences. They are killing each other for nothing. That makes no sense to me. And I think that the reason is that no gods ever have created human beings after their own image, like most religions would try to tell you. I definitely think that it's the other way around, that the different human beings have created all the different gods, to serve their own needs. And that, in essence, is what I think that gods should be. There are so many things that we don't understand, that we never will understand, for those things, when we become uncertain or start having fear of the unknown, THEN you create a god and say "I don't have to know these things, God will know it for me, will take care of me". I am accepting that there might not be a god, I am accepting not to know, why I'm alive, I don't know the reason for life and the goal we have, but I also know that you don't know it either, nobody knows why we're alive, what death is and what comes after death. But a lot of people are using a big amount of time thinking about it and to me that's a waste of time, because you can think about what will happen when I die, will there be another life or something, will there be heaven, but then again, what is heaven? Do you know what heaven is? What is going on there? We know nothing, because we have no proof. I personally don't want to waste my time, being scared of death, because I don't even know what death is, so why bothering? It might be the best thing that actually might happen to me, but as I don't know, I won't waste my time, because I could think about it for twenty years and still be as far as at the beginning after those twenty years. I rather use this time and use it on something else. When I do something as a human being, I have the proof of what I am doing and it might make be feel better inside, so I use the time for this, because it can make me feel even better inside and that makes it easier for me to help other people feeling better as well, it is much easier to help other people, when you feel good yourself. So you could avoid all those stupid wars that make no sense at all, because they're based on religious differences. They use the time for going to church, worshipping this, worshipping that and hating other people, because they don't believe in the same god as you do - and that's just crazy. Of course I respect the people, who believe in other gods, if they would only use it for what I have said before, to make themselves feel better and calm themselves down. I can understand that some people are not willing to accept that they don't know, why they're here and that they don't know, what happens when they die. Even I have some kind of religious (break) thoughts, I have had some experiences myself, but only for me and I cannot prove them to anybody else, but to me it proves that there is a co-existing spiritual world and that this world sometimes crosses over into our world, I have seen that, but I cannot prove it to anybody else.

It is something that everybody has to experience for him/herself.

Yes, but even though I have experienced that, it does not help me, because it doesn't answer any of my questions about why I am here and what I am here for. It doesn't explain, what is after you die or whether there is a god after all or not. To have seen such spirits does not explain any of these things. So I accept it. I'm a very down-to-earth, very logical thinking person and that's why I will never find these things out, no matter how much time I may spend on it.

But the problem is that most people just do not realise that they can think about it for years, but to no avail.

Exactly. And that is, what my point is. If anybody had a proof, then it would be great. I would LOVE to have one god showing itself to me and to all the others at the same time and I would not care if that god were called God or Buddha or Lala. But that is what I don't understand: Why, if there really is a god, can't that god spend just twenty minutes to show itself to all of us on earth and explain to us, show us, let us feel, what the goal of life is, what death is, what is going on after death; it would be a much better world. But maybe there is no god and that's why it doesn't spend those twenty minutes on us human beings. Maybe we're just so small, and that's another question that we don't like to think about, because the humans just think that we're the centre of the universe, that's just the way we are. But if you do think about this crazy little way of thinking, that we don't know how it all began... We have no idea... Many scientists think that there was this Big Bang and it created all these stars and that, and out of that came the different planets. But to get a Big Bang I know that there have to be a couple of little molecules moving into each other, but where do they come from? Where does the space come from the molecules are in? Then some will say that god created them, but who created god? Did he create himself? There just is no way of understanding our beginning. We can't understand that there is an end, we can't understand the size of the universe, because it could go on forever. If you keep on flying in a rocket and live forever, you'll just keep on flying in a straight line and that is how it is. Do you really think that you will ever come to a wall? And if so, what is beyond the wall? And again, if you think about how big the universe could be, then couldn't it be that it, too, is just a grain of sand on a big beach? Then our universe would again be oh so small and if you then look into this tiny grain of sand to find earth, you will not even be able to do so, because it's so small. And then imagine, how small I as a human being am on this tiny earth. Suddenly I have absolutely no meaning in the big picture. I become just another molecule. (laughs) And if you think about it that way, then it might not really be fun, but why not accept that it could just be the way it is? What is so wrong about this? We don't have to be the centre of the universe.

So basically the main character in "House Of God" is somebody, who cannot accept it and despairs...

He basically accepts it, but he wants to know very badly, who this god is, and I do, too. I would love to see this god, but I'm also realistic and that's why I'm saying that I know that I probably never will. So I'm not going to try, because I don't even know what to do to search for that god. If there was a god, then it would be the only one, who could show itself to everyone, there is nothing that an individual could do to make it show itself to everybody. I can make other choices for myself and just forget that god, because it might not even be there. And that is, what the main character does after all, too. He actually is in the position I am in, that he has seen the spiritual side of things, of another world, but it doesn't help him. That guy sees this spiritual world, it is right in front of him, but just because it says that it is the highest god, it still is no proof. It could be anything, it could be the devil in disguise, it could be god himself, it could be a simple little spirit and he doesn't know that. So he just thinks down-to-earth and says that this is not enough. It would have to show itself to everyone, tell us the meaning of life, of death, what comes afterwards. Tell us what the universe is and what is beyond and everything. And it cannot, so he says that he cannot believe in this spirit, cannot believe that IT is god, just because it shows itself to him. And it also cannot answer him his questions, it just tells him "that's none of your business. Leave that to us, live your life just the best you can." That's the best piece of advice that he gets from that "god" and that is what he finally does, living his life, but not serving this spirit/god. So he takes some action for himself that I would not take myself personally, because I'm not imprisoned in a church. That's why he says that he doesn't want to live there anymore, serving an unknown god. He wants to show it that he can think for himself logically, that he can take action for himself and chooses death - and it cannot stop him. Then he goes up into the big tower with a rope and starts screaming "Father of the universe, wherever you are, here I come, because this place is terrible!" Then he jumps and then he gets peace of mind. And in this story it looks as if the person finds it in the end, once it's dead.

So the main person, to a certain point, is you.

Of course. A lot of things that go on in the different stories of KING DIAMOND-albums deal a lot with how humans treat each other under different circumstances. And when you look at the different albums, it is there on each of them, and then you will find yourself looking around, in a bar, in the TV, at sports events and see, how people talk, how they act or how they get mad at each other and why. All human beings have this in them, in their feelings, but still every single one is different. That's really amazing. (laughs). It's a sea of inspiration for me and my stories. This time it has just gone a little deeper than before, I mean, it's still deep to talk about child molestation, like on the "Graveyard"-album, but that was also inspired by what I saw around me. At that time, I saw so many cases here in Dallas, where child-molesters were released from prison and went straight out and destroyed another innocent life. I could not understand, why these people were put back into society. Doing what they have done only ONCE should be enough to get them OUT of here (really angry) in my opinion. But I just felt that not enough people were talking about it and I can understand, why people don't talk about it. You don't want to be the one, where people think "Oh, he might be one." If you start talking about it a little too much, people will start thinking, why he does talk about it all the time, is he one himself? I don't really care what people think about me, I know that I'm not one of those, but it just pisses me off to see that law works so bad in that respect. Just as an example, if you get along with children really well, because you understand them and everything. So you are invited somewhere and they have a little girl and you play with her for an hour or so. Then her parents say that you should come over to have some coffee or a beer or something and the girl follows you, because she likes you, and sits on your lap. Then suddenly you start to get uncomfortable, because the girl has been there for half an hour or so and you start to think, "I hope that they don't think anything bad about me" because of that, because people just don't talk about it. Then you tell the girl to go playing somewhere else, push her away and the little kid doesn't understand why and thinks "What! He doesn't like me know, what did I do? I thought Uncle likes me!" But in an innocent way. And suddenly you start to do things that you normally don't do and should not do, even though it's wrong. I mean, what's wrong with love and care? Only when it gets perverted it starts to be wrong.

So could you say that the stories you tell with KING DIAMOND should make people think and talk about them, so they are in some way psychological?

Absolutely. Psychology and life-philosophy. It deals a lot with human feelings and usually there is one thing I write about in human beings, but then I put it into a horror-story, what I love to do, too, with different characters and different meanings and put them into some situation and then see, what happens. So it will become a story that, hopefully, will become interesting in itself. And if you want to look a little deeper, then there probably will be some questions in the story, like "Why did the guy do that?" and the like. Those are the things that I want people to think about the stories. I like to raise questions, so people start to think about certain things. But it's not my business, if they think that it's right or wrong.

So they find a piece of themselves in the stories and start to think about it...

Exactly, that they make up their own mind about it, what is very important. The important thing is not if to go right or go left, but that they think about it and find their own way. Right and wrong can be so different, because humans are so different, too. You take those different feelings and create a story with those feelings. That is the way we do it with KING DIAMOND. This time it is the same thing, there's something about relationships in this little short part of the story that is nearly a love-story, but there are other things in it, too, the respect for others, the will to sacrifice yourself for others, for the person you love, the understanding of the situation of another person. Some things mean to a certain person a lot and the acceptance of these things, of being an individual, is important. You want to be known by others as an individual, as yourself. You know that you're special, you're one of a kind, but you have your own world, you have your own bubble you're living in, with all the things that mean a lot to you. But if you have a girlfriend, she has that bubble, too. And she also has those things that mean a whole lot to her. And many people think that when these two people go together, then their bubbles will go together into one, too, but that's impossible, because they are different. It's rather two bubbles jumping along life together next to each other. That's why I think it's so important for people in relationships always to remember that you want to be respected for having different feelings, but you must respect that your girlfriend/wife/friends have that, too. And just because they think different about something than you are, that doesn't make them idiots. (laughs) To them it's probably very important to think this. For example if your girlfriend talks with you that she would like a new car, because the air-condition doesn't work in the old one and it's always so hot and when she goes to work in the morning, she's all sweaty and that, it means a lot to her to get this car and you just say that you were thinking about buying a few new XYZ. And she cannot understand that and says "what? I tell you something that is so important to me. I feel so bad because of that every day, when I'm coming home, it would be so much nicer also for you". But sometimes we just don't understand these things and don't think about other people as just as individual as we are. And you have stuff like that everywhere in our stories, when you go a little deeper. On "House Of God", the guy makes the choice that is best for his girlfriend in that situation, without actually knowing what it means in that moment. Of course he finds out later and realises that it wasn't that good. (laughs)

So how important are those lyrics and concepts for KING DIAMOND as a band? Could you imagine doing a KING DIAMOND-album without such a deep-going story?

There will always be some deep stuff behind it, because I need to write lyrics that I stand behind 100 per cent, whether they are related to each other or not. With MERCYFUL FATE, there are individual songs, they are more about legends and that, they are the band that asks more religious questions, but this time KING DIAMOND just took it all pretty much. But for KING DIAMOND I always wanted to do full stories, because it's a different way to work. You create characters, it's just like you're being a mini-god (laughs), because you make them. And it is real fun, but it also takes time to make sure that the story works, there is nothing wrong, to make sure that it has a good atmosphere, in that matter it is easier to write single songs, but then also single songs can be difficult, because you only have so little space to say something, like "The Lady Who Cries" by MERCYFUL FATE, it also deals with religion, but raises a different question. With the statue crying everybody says that it's a sign of God and they all go there and worship it. But how can you be sure that it's not the devil just playing a trick at you? So it's about religious mysteria. We're just so quick to jump onto something we don't understand and make it religious right away. So those stories and the underlying questions are very important to me and I don't think that there ever will be a KING DIAMOND-album without a story.

You always have those different characters within your stories. Have you ever thought about employing guest-musicians to take the different roles?

Yes, but I've always said no. (laughs) The reason for this is that you have to go out and present it live later and especially if there were female vocals in a story, we'd have to take that person onto the road as well, and I don't like singing with other people singing at the same time, too. This is because some of the harmonies I have to do live, I have to jump around to find the right one, the people hear the most in, because sometimes there are all these layers. So if I am singing live and suddenly another person starts to sing as well, if that person is not in perfect pitch, it means trouble for me, because then I don't know, if I'm pitching or not. I myself know perfectly what I'm doing, where I am and exactly where my voice is, but if somebody else sings, too, in a harmony and the harmony suddenly gets weird, then it's hard to tell, if it was you yourself or the other person that is off and that's why I say "no, no, no, no, no, no". I don't even know, if there are a lot of people out there, who could sing a harmony with me, with the style I write them now, but of course if you search out there, then you could find some, but it would be too much and I just don't like the feeling of somebody else singing and me depending on them being right. If they make a mistake, then I will make a mistake, too. But it would be fun to do it, I would actually love to do it, but it would have to be in a way, where you know that you won't have to go out on tour with that album, just a studio-album with different roles done by different people, that would be interesting. But that would mean that you wouldn't go out on the road with it.

So wouldn't that be a completely new challenge for you?

Yes, but at this point it would be almost impossible, because we want to tour. I don't want to do an album and then sit at home, doing nothing, because one of the things I like most about playing music is playing live. I really enjoy that so much.

Yes, I recognised that, when I saw you live for the first time at the "Rock In Allhau"-festival in Austria last year...

Oh yes, it was on that day, when it all but rained.

But mere minutes before you entered the stage, the rain stopped...

Yes, I had to do that, I hate playing in the rain. (laughs)

But as so often, you had to play when the sun was still up...

Yes, it always is better, when it's dark and even more with KING DIAMOND as everything is far more theatrical...

But to come back to the "House Of God"-album, the cover also is very interesting with the crown of thorns, the devilish grimace with the sewn-shut eyes and this finger drawing blood, I guess that those elements all have to do with the story, too, right?